I carpooled to the APE convention with my friend, Tim Foster, who had introduced me to Sam Kieth a few years ago, and who went to APE with me last year. The surprise was that Sam wanted to go this year, so we all made the hour-plus drive down together, with another couple of their friends.
When we got down, he had some sample pages of his new project, Scratch, which he shared. He also had a few sketches of a ditsy female that he wanted me to look at. This was his character for the project he wanted me to draw.
I felt so cool to be sitting in the food court with Sam Kieth, and him showing me his artwork and talking about the project we’d be working on together.
To finance the book we’d do together, we knew he had to get some work from a big company. He had three suggestions for possibilities. One would be a Batman story of his choice. He told me he planned to make it a Batman/Joker story. This was offered to him, because Batman was a character in his latest project, Scratch, but only on the first page of the first issue, and for a few more pages in the last issue. The other projects were some real-world version of Marvel superheroes, and some other similar, lesser project. Sam was asking my advice, about which project I thought he should accept. It’s weird, because I find, when I’m talking to Sam, he’ll be asking me something, but I don’t realize he’s looking for my advice, and he keeps poking around it, and then suddenly says, So what do you think? It always throws me off guard. I told him the real-world thing sounded the least interesting to me, at least as far as something fans could get excited about. I told him, for myself, I’d want to go for the biggest, coolest, most popular heroes around, because that’s what everyone will buy. Maybe his fans will try out the other stories, but no one will remember any of them. He said, Really? He thought for sure I’d like the sound of the real-world thing, since he knows my noir sensibility. At that moment, his friend Tim came up, and agreed that you’ve got to go for the big gun stories.
We split up. I went and found Daniel Clowes over at Fantagraphics, with only a moderate line to wait in. I made my usual pitch, showing him all my Dick Ayers-inked monster stories and pin-ups. Of course I made sure he knew the Hernandez Brothers had contributed pin-ups (I had ones from Gilbert and Mario by then). He seemed encouraging, and like he might be willing to do one at some time in the future. He said check back next year, because he’s really busy right now. That would be a real treat, to get something from him.
Likewise, I met Adrian Tomine, who seemed a little less interested. That’s what I expected from him, though, based on his non-monster work. I don’t suspect he’s ever even thought to draw a giant monster.
I saw Jaime and Mario Hernandez. I reintroduced myself to Jaime, and told him I was the guy who had kept emailing him about a monster pin-up. He had never written me back, and he looked pretty guilty about that, and told me he gets a lot of emails, and sometimes they just work their ways to the bottom. But he said to write him again.
Mario was friendly as can be, and actually hung out and visited with me. We talked about mainstream comics, and how DC had approached him about doing some DC characters, but Mario had his own ideas for stories he wanted to do at DC. He pitched an idea for a revamp of someone weird and obscure in the DC universe, like Prez or the Goon or something, but DC told him they were finished doing revamps. They just wanted him to do a superhero story, and he wasn’t interested in just doing a superhero story, and the potential work fizzled out. While we were visiting, Sam Kieth walked up and listened, and then made some comment and wandered off. I told Mario, “That was Sam Kieth.” And Mario seemed surprised, like he didn’t realize he was talking with a well-established professional.
I think Gary Groth was listed this year as a “featured guest” at APE, so I looked for info about him online. I didn’t know if he wrote or drew, but for some reason I really liked the sound of his name. “Gary Groth.” Somehow there was a mystique to him, before I even knew who he was.
I found an interview of him online, and learned he had been an editor at Marvel, but quit because he hated mainstream comics. I realized he was in charge of Fantagraphics, and the Comics Journal. Over the years and months I would start noticing the Comics Journal, and how intellectual it looked for a magazine about comics. How it looked more like a prestigious art magazine than a Wizard Toy and Price Guide, for example. And it was so big and heavy. And so dense with text. And artsy, and expensive.
At this time, I knew nothing about who the editors or reviewers were. But now I began hearing more about the Comics Journal, and how it would dissect an individual comic, or page of a comic, and just tear it apart. And people would argue for pages and pages about way-too-theoretical, pseudo-intellectual abstractions. How pretty much anything that got reviewed in the Journal was strongly disliked and belittled. It made me want to be a part of this elite, snobbish community. I’ve always wanted to be part of these snobbish in-crowds, for some reason. Always been attracted to them.
After spending some time alone poking around, I found Sam, who was talking with Gary Groth. He introduced me, and I just followed them around. Gary was putting together a sketchbook full of artists, which I believe was going to be given to someone important or auctioned for something important, and Sam drew a little sketch in it.
Sam was telling Gary he’s been in the industry for so many years. He got his start at Fantagraphics. He’s done mainstream art, but he’s always edgier than most of what they put out. He likes the sensibility of indie, and he’s trying to do more personal projects, and no one will give him any attention. Gary hadn’t heard of Sam’s Four Women or Zero Girl. Fantagraphics put out the Comics Journal every couple months. Could Gary please think of Sam if he ever needs to fill space with an interview or something.
Sam asked Gary about books Gary liked, and artists he liked. First Gary only admitted to liking books Fantagraphics puts out. Finally he admitted he was a big fan of Barry Windsor Smith, loving his work when he was younger, so that love has kind of remained. He and Sam got talking about all the other indie comics companies, and Gary smiled and sarcastically said he really liked having all these other companies in the market, because it meant that all these shitty artists who used to send Fantagraphics all these shitty proposals could send their shitty proposals to all these other companies and leave him alone. That’s why he liked all these new companies. He basically suggested that the only books he liked were Fantagraphics books, and that he didn’t even like everything Fantagraphics puts out, and Sam pressed him to try and name a book published by someone else that he thought was okay. Sam asked him about a specific graphic novel that he thought was very good, and that everyone seemed to be talking about, and was getting very good press and critical attention. Gary said he didn’t think it was any good.
Sam basically made Gary look at my monster pages. Gary was very polite about going through all the pages. He seemed impressed Dick Ayers was inking, and asked if Dick had an autobiography. I told him Dick was currently working on an autobiography in comic form, and Gary kind of snorted, and I wasn’t sure how to interpret that.
I told Gary I had shown my stuff around, and didn’t really get any interest, so I was planning to self-publish. I told him I’d sent stuff to Fantagraphics. He said, “Fantagraphics? Not these pages.” Which was a tremendous boost to me. To me, it suggested he thought if I had submitted these monster pages, Fantagraphics would have taken notice.
Sam bought my lunch. I think he felt guilty, knowing he wouldn’t be able to pay me much on our comics project, and this was the least he could do.
It was a really fun con for me. Great to spend so much time with Sam. I really enjoyed getting a chance to hang out with Gary, too. I had heard general feelings people sometimes have of the Comics Journal, being so snooty and conceited and scoffing at anything that isn’t “art”, and picking work to pieces until it’s nothing but cowering, humiliated fodder. Gary had this personality that could be negative and opinionated, and kind of condescending, but in a funny, entertaining, and even non-threatening way. I’ve met a lot of people like this, who I always find intimidating. I understand how they may be judged “assholes”, but I don’t feel that way at all. I find them to be a real hoot, and I can’t get enough of them.